ranty feminist alert
Apr. 28th, 2008 05:56 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
I got sort of snippy with a friend of mine last night, and I can't tell whether I feel bad about it or not. Part of me wants to excuse the whole thing on the grounds that I know he's a decent guy and probably didn't mean to come off the way he did, and after everything that's gone down with the Open Source Boob Project in the past week or so, I've been a lot touchier than normal on the subject of male privilege and how it relates to women's bodies. On the other hand, decent guys like my friend can fall into the trap of privileged thinking just as easily as pure assholes can. Letting it slide doesn't do anybody any favors.
I guess I should explain a little more so this all makes sense. FriendGuy keeps a blog about the trials of navigating the dating world after the end of a long-term relationship. For the most part, it's funny and well-written, and quite a few of the entries are of the "Help, I don't understand why girls do X, Y, and/or Z!" variety. And that's fine. Where I start to get a little tetchy is where the tone shifts from "I don't understand why girls do X, Y, and/or Z" to "I don't understand why girls do X, Y, and/or Z specifically in order to tease/titillate me." That sort of thing tends to set off my male privilege alarms, just as comments about poor people needing to work harder sets off my class privilege alarms. There are a lot of really unpleasant assumptions lurking just beneath the surface of statements like that, and it pisses me off.
The post in question dealt with a pair of girls in bikinis on the beach. The word "flaunt" was used. And you know how girls hook their fingers in the seams of their suit bottoms so they can smooth them out? I was under the impression that this was the most hassle-free way to fix a potential wedgie -- lord knows I've used that maneuver plenty of times -- but no, apparently we do this because we know boys are watching us, and we totally want to draw attention to our asses. What's more, we know how much this torments said boys -- you can look, but you can't touch! -- and so we do it on purpose. Just to fuck with them.
Fuck.
That.
I think he was a little surprised by how grouchy my reply was (it was something along the lines of, "For the love of god, not everything girls do is for the benefit of the BOYS looking at them") and apologized for coming off so black-and-white about it. But then he also said that it was "blatant" in the case of these particular girls, and that there was no need to get my feathers so ruffled.
Blergh.
What really kills me is that I was one of maybe two people who had an issue with the post. The other commenters were either guys who agreed with him ("Man, those girls were totally fucking with you! Why are all girls such teases?!"), or girls who did nothing but reinforce his stance ("LOL OMG WE TOTALLY DO TEASE LIEK THAT! WE LIKE WHEN BOYS LOOK AT US!"). I can't help but feel really depressed about that, like...way to make the rest of us look bad, ladies. Obviously, there are women who enjoy teasing guys and being ogled, just as the OSBP proved that there are plenty of women who are okay with people both asking to touch and actually touching their breasts. But that doesn't mean all of us are like that.
I must be more upset about this than I realized, because I honestly have no idea where I'm going with this rant. It bothers me that a lot of guys see the world as one where girls constantly tease them with the promise of sex, where everything we say, do, wear, whatever is viewed as All About Men. A girl in a low-cut top at a convention is "obviously putting her assets on display." Girls adjusting their bikinis on the beach are "flaunting" their bodies. In one of the comments, FriendGuy's roommate added something to the effect of, "All men desire are women, and all women desire is to be desired by men," and that makes me so fucking SICK that I can't breathe.
Because, after all, it's a very short step from that to saying that women should find male attention flattering, no matter how uncomfortable it makes us. What, that guy's staring at your ass? Why, you should be flattered! Having a man pay attention to you is all you really want anyway, because why else would you stand where he could see you? It bothers you that your boss won't quit looking at your chest? You should feel honored and special, not insulted. It's your own fault for showing your cleavage, anyway.
And I think there are a lot of guys who don't understand this, who don't get how exhausting it is to be looked at, day after day, how tiring it can be to be treated as if your body exists for their benefit. How unnerving it can be when someone harasses you not because you're just some random person walking past, but because you happen to have breasts. Living in the city, I've had my fair share of freaky encounters with crazy, drunk, and/or scary people, but none of them have made me feel more unsafe or scared than the ones where my sex was an issue. Part of me always feels a little dumb by how upset I get over this -- after all, no one's ever tried to touch me or otherwise attack me. I feel as though people merely saying things shouldn't upset me as much as it does.
But every once in a while, a drunk guy will be there when I'm waiting at a crosswalk. He'll get in my space, slur that he wants to see my tits. Every once in a while, some otherwise innocuous man will pass me on the street and leer, tell me I'm beautiful, and when I ignore him he goes from sleazy to psychotic in less than a second and screams that I should just be a fucking prostitute, and when I keep walking, he yells after me, calls me a fucking whore, a filthy fucking whore. It's not fair that I'm the one to feel dirty and scared whenever this happens, like I'm being punished for being female, but that's how it goes, kid. We're nothing but tits and ass and cunt, and if we're not flattered by it, it's our own damn fault.
Obviously, most men aren't this reductionist in their thinking. I know FriendGuy isn't, nor are most of the guys in my acquaintance. But objectification can be subtle, and right now anything that remotely smacks of it pisses me the hell off. The OSBP was kind of triggery for reasons I don't really feel like going into right now, and while it was the good sort of triggery -- the kind that makes me angry as opposed to depressed -- I can't help but worry that I'm overreacting to the FriendGuy situation. I keep wanting to make excuses for him -- he's a nice guy, he genuinely loves women, he just didn't express himself very well -- but every time I do, I keep circling back to those words "flaunt" and "torment", to being told that I don't need to get my feathers ruffled.
I don't like it when people tell me not to get upset. Especially if I think there's something worth being upset about.
Ugh, whatever. I have no idea where I'm going with this. All I know is that I'm unhappy about it.
I guess I should explain a little more so this all makes sense. FriendGuy keeps a blog about the trials of navigating the dating world after the end of a long-term relationship. For the most part, it's funny and well-written, and quite a few of the entries are of the "Help, I don't understand why girls do X, Y, and/or Z!" variety. And that's fine. Where I start to get a little tetchy is where the tone shifts from "I don't understand why girls do X, Y, and/or Z" to "I don't understand why girls do X, Y, and/or Z specifically in order to tease/titillate me." That sort of thing tends to set off my male privilege alarms, just as comments about poor people needing to work harder sets off my class privilege alarms. There are a lot of really unpleasant assumptions lurking just beneath the surface of statements like that, and it pisses me off.
The post in question dealt with a pair of girls in bikinis on the beach. The word "flaunt" was used. And you know how girls hook their fingers in the seams of their suit bottoms so they can smooth them out? I was under the impression that this was the most hassle-free way to fix a potential wedgie -- lord knows I've used that maneuver plenty of times -- but no, apparently we do this because we know boys are watching us, and we totally want to draw attention to our asses. What's more, we know how much this torments said boys -- you can look, but you can't touch! -- and so we do it on purpose. Just to fuck with them.
Fuck.
That.
I think he was a little surprised by how grouchy my reply was (it was something along the lines of, "For the love of god, not everything girls do is for the benefit of the BOYS looking at them") and apologized for coming off so black-and-white about it. But then he also said that it was "blatant" in the case of these particular girls, and that there was no need to get my feathers so ruffled.
Blergh.
What really kills me is that I was one of maybe two people who had an issue with the post. The other commenters were either guys who agreed with him ("Man, those girls were totally fucking with you! Why are all girls such teases?!"), or girls who did nothing but reinforce his stance ("LOL OMG WE TOTALLY DO TEASE LIEK THAT! WE LIKE WHEN BOYS LOOK AT US!"). I can't help but feel really depressed about that, like...way to make the rest of us look bad, ladies. Obviously, there are women who enjoy teasing guys and being ogled, just as the OSBP proved that there are plenty of women who are okay with people both asking to touch and actually touching their breasts. But that doesn't mean all of us are like that.
I must be more upset about this than I realized, because I honestly have no idea where I'm going with this rant. It bothers me that a lot of guys see the world as one where girls constantly tease them with the promise of sex, where everything we say, do, wear, whatever is viewed as All About Men. A girl in a low-cut top at a convention is "obviously putting her assets on display." Girls adjusting their bikinis on the beach are "flaunting" their bodies. In one of the comments, FriendGuy's roommate added something to the effect of, "All men desire are women, and all women desire is to be desired by men," and that makes me so fucking SICK that I can't breathe.
Because, after all, it's a very short step from that to saying that women should find male attention flattering, no matter how uncomfortable it makes us. What, that guy's staring at your ass? Why, you should be flattered! Having a man pay attention to you is all you really want anyway, because why else would you stand where he could see you? It bothers you that your boss won't quit looking at your chest? You should feel honored and special, not insulted. It's your own fault for showing your cleavage, anyway.
And I think there are a lot of guys who don't understand this, who don't get how exhausting it is to be looked at, day after day, how tiring it can be to be treated as if your body exists for their benefit. How unnerving it can be when someone harasses you not because you're just some random person walking past, but because you happen to have breasts. Living in the city, I've had my fair share of freaky encounters with crazy, drunk, and/or scary people, but none of them have made me feel more unsafe or scared than the ones where my sex was an issue. Part of me always feels a little dumb by how upset I get over this -- after all, no one's ever tried to touch me or otherwise attack me. I feel as though people merely saying things shouldn't upset me as much as it does.
But every once in a while, a drunk guy will be there when I'm waiting at a crosswalk. He'll get in my space, slur that he wants to see my tits. Every once in a while, some otherwise innocuous man will pass me on the street and leer, tell me I'm beautiful, and when I ignore him he goes from sleazy to psychotic in less than a second and screams that I should just be a fucking prostitute, and when I keep walking, he yells after me, calls me a fucking whore, a filthy fucking whore. It's not fair that I'm the one to feel dirty and scared whenever this happens, like I'm being punished for being female, but that's how it goes, kid. We're nothing but tits and ass and cunt, and if we're not flattered by it, it's our own damn fault.
Obviously, most men aren't this reductionist in their thinking. I know FriendGuy isn't, nor are most of the guys in my acquaintance. But objectification can be subtle, and right now anything that remotely smacks of it pisses me the hell off. The OSBP was kind of triggery for reasons I don't really feel like going into right now, and while it was the good sort of triggery -- the kind that makes me angry as opposed to depressed -- I can't help but worry that I'm overreacting to the FriendGuy situation. I keep wanting to make excuses for him -- he's a nice guy, he genuinely loves women, he just didn't express himself very well -- but every time I do, I keep circling back to those words "flaunt" and "torment", to being told that I don't need to get my feathers ruffled.
I don't like it when people tell me not to get upset. Especially if I think there's something worth being upset about.
Ugh, whatever. I have no idea where I'm going with this. All I know is that I'm unhappy about it.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 02:25 am (UTC)Seriously, THANKYOU.
I haven't gone NEAR the open project thing. Seriously, it's stirred up so much crap and I'm getting pissed off just thinking about it.
I can understand being angry at friendguy-- I'm similarly annoyed by a guy who I KNOW is not a bad person, but who just doesn't GET privilege. It's like some men can't differentiate between, "Um, recognise your privilege before you open your mouth about women/'s issues" and "I hate you and want to hack your testicles off and feed them to my cat." It's like they don't want to get it because they're worried they'll lose nice guy status or realise how arseholeish they've been in however many years of existing. Or not know how to stop, but know they should.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 03:48 am (UTC)Turning one's head and glancing when someone attractive walks past is one thing. Deciding to then
a) continue to look, in a fixed, leery creepy state
b) masturbate
c) get annoyingly close to the person you're looking at
d) initiate unwanted conversation
e) touch that person
f) hit on that person and then rant and rave and call them names when they ignore or refuse you
is NOT appropriate. Ever. Unless the person has already said something like, "Hey, you're really hot, let's exchange phone numbers," and you know what? I've never done that. And I've never seen ANYONE do that.
And I honestly don't get the "you're a whore" mentality, either. Assuming I WAS a sex worker, and was out looking for business, wouldn't there be a discussion of a financial transaction taking place? But... no. "Whore" doesn't mean anything more than an excuse to use a word linking women and sex in a derogatory comment, and in that sense, in the most ironic way possible. (You're a whore for NOT putting out? How the fuck does that work?)
I had a similar thing happen a few weeks ago. This guy kept leering at me on the train, and offered to help me with the pram (I'd once politely said, "No thanks," then he asked again, I said "no thanks," then he got in my face about what was my fucking problem? When I pointed out that I'd already declined his offer, he went apeshit and was stomping up Flinders Street Station yelling abuse at me. Yes, I got called a whore, amongst other things.
My two kids were with me, as if that story couldn't get any more disturbing.)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 05:52 am (UTC)Thank you so much for seeing exactly what it was I was trying to say in my rather roundabout way. I'd been fretting about the issue since last night, because while my head said I was overreacting, my gut said I wasn't. And while I've followed along most of the discussions about the OSBP, I haven't jumped into any of them, precisely because I know my emotions tend to run high on the subject, and the more upset I am, the less coherent I become. But this was a friend of mine and I expected better of him, and I guess it was just the final straw for me.
I can understand being angry at friendguy-- I'm similarly annoyed by a guy who I KNOW is not a bad person, but who just doesn't GET privilege.
Gahhhhhhh, YES.
Part of the problem, I think, is that people tend to automatically equate "privileged" with "bad," so that if you're pointing out where exactly they're privileged, you're telling them they're a bad person. Personally, I think it's important to be aware of your own privilege, because knowing the ways it affects your thinking and interactions is the first step towards interacting with other people on an even playing field. And most of us ARE privileged in some way or another -- I'm white, I come from a middle-class background, I was allowed to pursue higher levels of education, I can "pass" in a heteronormative society. This doesn't make me better than anyone else, not even close, but I also try to be aware of how these experiences may have colored my thinking or given me unfair advantages. And when I fail to remember this and someone calls me on it? I try not to get defensive or upset, and instead try to see where the other person is coming from, because the essence of privilege is that you're wielding a great big stick without really being aware of it, and getting upset when someone points out the great big stick you're waving around is just really gross and uncool.
But a lot of people see the privilege discussion as an outright attack, and I think it's pretty much for the reasons you pointed out: they're afraid of what the discussion implies about THEM. That's where the dismissal thing comes in, where we're told we're overreacting or getting our feathers ruffled, our panties in a knot, our knickers in a twist, whatever. The same goes for trying to turn the discussion into one about man-hating instead of privilege (because all feminists are crazy man-haters! *sigh*). It's very aggravating and very frustrating, and it makes me even sadder to know that there are plenty of women who buy into the male privilege worldview as one that's right and proper.
However. It does make me feel a lot better to know I'm not the only one who thinks like this. That sort of thing gives me hope. :)
(I'm heading off to bed, but I'll definitely get to your other comments tomorrow. All this discussion is fantastic!)
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 02:29 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 05:12 am (UTC)Of course, I realize that not all girls are like me on this, but in my own experience and in conversations with other girls, there's a general agreement that bikinis are more comfortable for a wider variety of body types than one-pieces. Sure, some girls go to the beach specifically so that people will see them and admire their bodies. Other girls go to the beach because they want to lay in the sand, goof around in the water, get a tan, hang out with their friends. Just because you come from a background where modesty is the rule of thumb doesn't mean that it's the same way everywhere, and just because someone wears a bikini in hot weather to a beach doesn't mean they're specifically doing it just to be looked at.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 05:04 pm (UTC)I feel this way about my everyday wear. I went through about six months (and even now still, I do it once or twice a week), where I would wear a white, button-up shirt, either my Slytherin or Hitman tie, a black skirt down to the knees, black knee highs, and a pair of Mary Janes. Once I started getting sexual attention from creepy men, I stopped for a brief amount of time before realizing, "Oh, hai. I wear this because I LOOK GOOD IN IT and because IT'S COMFORTABLE."
But then, whole background of modesty of thing, I felt like *I* was responsiblity for bringing their...fetish...whatever...to light. I'm a young, busty, rather nice-looking female, and I'm parading around in this? But then I realized that I wasn't parading around; I wasn't carrying myself any differently than normal, I was just Cynthia walking, talking, my legs and chest covered perfectly--so was it REALLY my fault that they took it sexually?
Do you think it's the same with bikinis? Perhaps I'm just jealous because I could never pull one off, but I've always known bikini girls who are there to just be looked at.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 02:13 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 04:59 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 09:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 02:41 am (UTC)There are so many ways to take this topic and so many objections people might present, and it's going to leave us running in circles. But I can't help but feel there's some common sense intuition running here that says that some part of thinking "women desire to be desired" isn't right.
Gah, I don't know. I probably should stop typing...
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 05:03 am (UTC)But I can't help but feel there's some common sense intuition running here that says that some part of thinking "women desire to be desired" isn't right.
I had such a strong, visceral reaction to that particular comment. It's difficult to articulate exactly WHY it upset me so much (beyond the obvious "woman as object of desire and nothing else" connotations, I mean), but I am glad that I'm not the only person who found it pretty wrong and unnerving. It's hard for me to be articulate about this subject, because I tend to speak with my emotions rather than my brain when I get riled up, but I think that makes it a topic worth discussing. If we don't speak out about it, who will?
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 03:44 am (UTC)Anyway, I think you are over-reacting just a little. Not that what you think isn't completely right--because it is--but I feel like it's more something that by now you should have accepted won't be solved by getting angry. I agree with every point you've made, but it's something I would no longer bother getting angry about. Sure, it's upsetting your friend makes sweeping comments about ALL GIRLS EVER teasing in such a way, but all he needs is a correction--because I believe it when he says that those particular girls were doing it. I wouldn't put it past some girls; especially those he chooses to give his attention to (seeing as he thinks girls are okay with dudes just touching their boobs--what the hell?)
I really like men. Like, a lot. But obviously the array of men that fascinate me--as varied as they may be--does not include the fat and/or ugly and/or douchebag, drunk losers who make women feel uncomfortable all the time. I like to pretend they don't exist. After all, they're not worthy of being considered men; they are sexless sub-human slime, more like. Once I have them out of the way, the rest of male gender that I do associate with looks so much better in comparison! Pretty much all the guys I talk to are smart, sensitive, and understand that girls do not exist for their pleasure and should be given the utmost respect in terms of sexuality, and that anything less is just plain creepy.
And think of it this way: guys who use words like "torment" to refer to a girl wearing something revealing are probably genuinely tormented by this--it's almost like a crippling stupidity of an otherwise intelligent guy brought on by sexual desire. It's almost deserving of pity.
I hope I do not come off as disagreeable! I just think a lot about objectification when making my art, and it comes out in a weird way.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 04:00 am (UTC)It's torment for him to see a scantily-clad woman at the beach? Who isn't sexually interested in him? Maybe he should either get over it, or stop going to the beach. Honestly-- entitlement complex. And a lot of guys-- even the nice ones-- fail to get it on levels. It's not about them being a subspecies, it's about them being brought up in a world that has taught them that women are a second class type of person and are just there to provide them with something, or they're worthless.
It doesn't mean that they're write-offs, by any means, but that they probably should step back and think about how it would be to be stuck in a female body for awhile.
The women in question MIGHT have been flirting with him: maybe. But did they go over and hit on him? Did he try any kind of litmus test to see if they were more interested and then back off/give them his number depending on their reaction? No. He chose to be a big privileged whiner and vent about it on his blog instead.
And then there are the guys who are so entitlementy that they believe that no one would possibly refuse them. The guys who think teenagers in school uniforms are trying to be sexy. (Um, newsflash: when I was a kid, I had to wear the damn thing because it was compulsory. And I caught public transport when getting home from school. I was NOT asking for sexual attention: I was going about my daily business. And I've had leery, creepy men think I was wanting it when I was dressed in a relatively conservative manner, but from stuff they said, I was "wanting it." Maybe these women were just going for a swim and don't like the feeling of one-pieces? Maybe they WERE "putting on a show" but for someone else?)
Fat and ugly men don't bother me at all. ANY guys-- not just the physically unappealing ones-- are capable of thinking women are just there to get them off, and guys right across the appearance and body-shape spectrum can be offensive and scary. Hey, have a look at Ted Bundy. He was pretty hot, if you ignore the personality.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 04:38 am (UTC)Well, that was actually a miscommunication. I meant to say those who happen to be fat and/or ugly in addition to being creepy douchebags (which is very common when it comes to dudes catcalling...in my experience anyway). Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like it was okay if they are handsome, because it's not.
Yeah, they're adults, but...well, again, what's getting angry about it going to solve?
I guess I try to be optimistic. And optimism either involves actively trying to improve the world (one misinformed nice guy at a time), or just assuming the guys who make you feel uncomfortable and shitty are just really worthless and ignorant and not worth a second of your time. It also includes recognizing that, for all the shitty men in the world out there, there are just as many shitty girls who are encouraging this type of behavior. I would treat them similarly, either way.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 04:58 am (UTC)I don't think anger has to solve anything, but I think people have a right to it. Feeling uncomfortable or depressed or scared doesn't solve anything, either, but people still have those feelings about things.
I don't think men have the right to be angry about shallow gold diggers. If we didn't live under the system we're in, women wouldn't be able to be gold diggers. The way I'm seeing it, those women are just making the best of a bad situation. If women's appearance and "niceness" weren't prized above their abilities, we wouldn't have trophy wives. If women and men had the same opportunities, particularly when it comes to the financial end of things, women wouldn't be cozying up to men to be financially supported. (Or, look, there would be the odd one, just like how there are Kevin Federlines in the world, but the people doing this wouldn't be OVERWHELMINGLY female.)
You either do something about the cases you encounter, or just accept it and do everything you can to not let it affect your life.
See, I think that calling it out, encouraging your sons/family/workmates/whoever to rethink their attitudes and getting annoyed enough to write to the people pushing this status quo is doing something. And if we can't do anything or they won't listen, we have EVERY RIGHT to be pissed off. I'm not going to smile about being considered a piece of meat because I don't have a Y chromosome.
just assuming the guys who make you feel uncomfortable and shitty are just really worthless and ignorant and not worth a second of your time
The thing is, though, it's NOT just the "bad apples" who do this. (They're just an extreme at one end-- just like how plenty of well-intentioned nice white people can be racist but aren't members of the KKK. Doesn't mean they're all racist arseholes but it DOES mean that they still have rethinking and relearning to do about privilege).
Plenty of good, well-intentioned guys do it, too, and sometimes, when it's coming from someone intelligent and nice who's a friend, it IS infuriating and confronting. Because you expected better, you know?
there are just as many shitty girls who are encouraging this type of behavior
Fuck yeah, and they piss me off, too. Part of me feels sorry for them because honestly, they're playing into a system which is working against them (and which isn't going to keep them well-funded/supported etc as they get older or divorced or what-have-you) but the small benefits they get (attention, money, validation, etc) make it worthwhile for them. Still, it's fucking annoying and I seriously take issue with women who pull that crap.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 04:49 am (UTC)I don't think you're coming off as disagreeable, although I do disagree with some of what you say. Sure, there are girls who tease, but not all girls are like that, just like not all guys are like the creeps who harass me on the street. There are a lot of guys who DO get it --
Because...if we don't get upset, if we don't say "look, there's a line here and you just crossed it," that gives tacit approval for that sort of thinking to continue. I've been in far too many situations where I felt like I couldn't speak because I felt threatened in some way -- someone might try to hurt me if I spoke out, I might lose my job if I complained, that sort of thing -- so I do appreciate that there are times when I feel safe enough to say something. When my concerns are dismissed as ruffled feathers, though, I'm inclined to feel kind of grouchy. It's the like the difference between saying "I'm sorry you were offended" and "I'm sorry I offended you."
Ack, I'm sorry if I'm not being particularly coherent. It's such a touchy issue that I'm never entirely sure how to articulate it. I mean, I like men. I think they're great. And, for the most part, I don't worry that every guy I talk to is undressing me with his eyes or judging me in some way, and I love that most of the guys I'm really close to are the ones who do get where I'm coming from with a lot of this. There are just...so, so many guys who don't.
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 05:10 am (UTC)I didn't mean to make it sound like you are overreacting and out of line for being angry; rather that getting angry at that particular friend was probably not the most effective thing since he'd be less inclined to take what you said to heart (since people are usually more likely to listen to what you have to say when you're not angry, I guess). That's all!
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 04:51 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 05:04 am (UTC)Remember when low-rise jeans were all you could buy because it was the fashion? I'd just lost a lot of weight because, well, I gave birth, but wasn't close to the previous shape I was pre-kids, and I was sick of maternity clothing, so I went jeans shopping.
And I was stuck buying low-rise jeans. Not because I was trying to look sexy, but because I couldn't find jeans in my price range that weren't low-rise. I just wanted something functional and comfortable, same as how I'll wear a short-sleeved top in summer, or a short skirt with groovy stockings to accessorise, or a swimsuit when I'm at the pool.
And go you on having body positivity. I'm sorry there are enough shitty people in the world doing that to you. :(
(no subject)
Date: 2008-04-29 05:07 pm (UTC)Ohhhh man, do I ever hear you on this one. I was the opposite, though; I could only wear high-rise. And the high-rise were so painful because they would push my stomach in and press on my bladder, but I couldn't FIT in the low-rise because I was a little chubbier, so I was stuck in cramped pants that did little if nothing for my figure. It made the area between my belly button and breasts pout out--yeah, you know that area, right? Yeah. That's what they did for me.